Here's a concept: Liberty
Concepts are hard to define using language. Simple words cannot express grand ideas and one of the grandest is the concept of "Liberty".
What’s the difference between freedom and liberty?
From the online dictionary I got the following (there are more usages but these are the ones I’d like to focus on):
free·dom
n.
1. The condition of being free of restraints.
2. Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.
3.
a. Political independence.
b. Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly.
4. Exemption from an unpleasant or onerous condition: freedom from want.
5. The capacity to exercise choice; free will: We have the freedom to do as we please all afternoon.
lib·er·ty
n. pl. lib·er·ties
1.
a. The condition of being free from restriction or control.
b. The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one's own choosing.
c. The condition of being physically and legally free from confinement, servitude, or forced labor. See Synonyms at freedom.
2. Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
3. A right or immunity to engage in certain actions without control or interference: the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights.
So what’s the difference? Well, it’s very subtle but basically having freedom is a physical kind of existence, but having liberty relates more to the mind and beliefs primarily and secondly to how you express those beliefs in a physical manner
So, “Liberty” is a more comprehensive freedom, one that transcends the physical and enters the realm of thought, freeing it from oppression and judgment. Wow! Imagine! A word that means be allowed to think whatever you want and to believe whatever you want! A concept more foreign to the Arab world I defy you to find.
Why? I might be crazy but I think this is all wrapped up in the tribalism, community thought thing. I think that eastern people and Arabs in particular are subconsciously big fans of objective truth, they just think that consensus or shared subjective truth get you closer to an objective truth hence the lack of need for one to have individual thought.
Where did this culture come from? Well, I believe it cam from the same place that western culture didn’t come from: Verbal Culture.
Arab culture is a verbal one. It’s history is carried from one generation to the next via stories and legends and fables. Now, a history carried down through time in this manner needs some sort of fact checking to make sure the truth of the story is maintained: introduce consensus. If 5 out of six people said it happened that way, then it did.
So what do you do when you can’t remember exactly how the story went but two out of 5 guys have said it went a certain way and the other two guys have yet to speak? Well, to protect face (i.e. maintain your place amongst your tribe) the smart thing to do is go with the first two guys coz then you’re a guaranteed majority…and what about the last two guys? Who cares! It doesn’t matter that the first two guys made up the whole thing so that they could win a bet!
For liberty to exist within the Arab world a certain amount of individualism needs to be allowed or introduced. Not at the cost of the other equally valuable and societally (made that word up) beneficial concepts like family, community and civility but enough for people to value their own liberties enough to protect those of their fellow man’s (or woman’s).
I could go on…..
What’s the difference between freedom and liberty?
From the online dictionary I got the following (there are more usages but these are the ones I’d like to focus on):
free·dom
n.
1. The condition of being free of restraints.
2. Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.
3.
a. Political independence.
b. Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly.
4. Exemption from an unpleasant or onerous condition: freedom from want.
5. The capacity to exercise choice; free will: We have the freedom to do as we please all afternoon.
lib·er·ty
n. pl. lib·er·ties
1.
a. The condition of being free from restriction or control.
b. The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one's own choosing.
c. The condition of being physically and legally free from confinement, servitude, or forced labor. See Synonyms at freedom.
2. Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
3. A right or immunity to engage in certain actions without control or interference: the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights.
So what’s the difference? Well, it’s very subtle but basically having freedom is a physical kind of existence, but having liberty relates more to the mind and beliefs primarily and secondly to how you express those beliefs in a physical manner
So, “Liberty” is a more comprehensive freedom, one that transcends the physical and enters the realm of thought, freeing it from oppression and judgment. Wow! Imagine! A word that means be allowed to think whatever you want and to believe whatever you want! A concept more foreign to the Arab world I defy you to find.
Why? I might be crazy but I think this is all wrapped up in the tribalism, community thought thing. I think that eastern people and Arabs in particular are subconsciously big fans of objective truth, they just think that consensus or shared subjective truth get you closer to an objective truth hence the lack of need for one to have individual thought.
Where did this culture come from? Well, I believe it cam from the same place that western culture didn’t come from: Verbal Culture.
Arab culture is a verbal one. It’s history is carried from one generation to the next via stories and legends and fables. Now, a history carried down through time in this manner needs some sort of fact checking to make sure the truth of the story is maintained: introduce consensus. If 5 out of six people said it happened that way, then it did.
So what do you do when you can’t remember exactly how the story went but two out of 5 guys have said it went a certain way and the other two guys have yet to speak? Well, to protect face (i.e. maintain your place amongst your tribe) the smart thing to do is go with the first two guys coz then you’re a guaranteed majority…and what about the last two guys? Who cares! It doesn’t matter that the first two guys made up the whole thing so that they could win a bet!
For liberty to exist within the Arab world a certain amount of individualism needs to be allowed or introduced. Not at the cost of the other equally valuable and societally (made that word up) beneficial concepts like family, community and civility but enough for people to value their own liberties enough to protect those of their fellow man’s (or woman’s).
I could go on…..
posted by The Devil's Advocate at 1:35 AM
7 Comments:
I must disagree with the distinction you here make between the "East" as oral cultures and the "West" as... well, you don't actually write it, but only imply that it is something else and the something else must in this case be written cultures.
This distinction is wrong. Some of the very earliest evidence of writing is from Mesopotamia, another large body is preserved from ancient Egypt, and from China. The West came much, much later.
Yes, this is true and I am very aware of the fact that papyrus was used a very long time ago and that babel had a library whose burning down by the monguls was one of the greatest crimes of history BUT
The west developed what we now understand to be "paper" and they mass produced it. This singular invention is associated directly with western civilization huge leap forward, surpassing that of hte chinese. By the time everyone had caught up, it was too late.
Also, having a huge library (as in the case of Babel in ancient mesopatamis) didn't mean that everyone could read. Having a generally literate population was only possible due to huge cultural advancements that the west made.
I think you would enjoy the works by Walter Ong. Check out his classic "Orality and Literacy: The Technologizing of the Word" (first published in 1982, but reprinted several times and translated into numerous languages). It's fantastic and examines some of the very complex questions you are touching upon in your reply. Enjoy!
You can't make words up!
@kinza: Of course he can. He just did! And it's quite a nice one.
Thats the worst loads a crap ive ever read in my life.... darling try to actually understand the sociology of the arab world and the psychological influences of collectivism and individualism, rather than just coming up with the bullshit you've managed to present in a highly poetic manner.
Anon,
Thanks for the critique, even though it's just as useless as you claim my post is.
Why don't you illustrate how wrong I am by presenting the alternate view that you are apparently more likely to agree with?
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